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Paying A Friend His Due & Demanding A Commitment
Tuesday, May 05, 2009
DEAR CAT: Here is our story: My wife and I have a friend who is a real estate agent. When he learned we were looking for a house he offered to help us. We didnât clearly say yes or no because we thought it would be too much pressure (and I honestly didnât know if he was any good). He knew we were casually dealing with a couple different agents so we all let the subject drop. A few weeks later he called to say he found us a house â and itâs perfect! We are negotiating with the owners now but this is definitely going to happen. When we had dinner with him recently, he mentioned reducing his commission for us, though he called it a âfinders fee.â I am really mad and weâre not even taking his calls. He is my friend, how can he ask me for money?! I donât want our long friendship to end over this but I am furious. Your call? — FRIENDSHIP AND MONEY DONâT MIX
DEAR âFRIENDâ: Go get your checkbook and a pen. Write a check to your friend for the commission you would pay any other real estate agent – you know, all those strangers who didnât find your dream house and wouldnât offer you a discount on points. Call your friend and ask him to meet you and your wife for dinner. When he arrives, have his favorite drink waiting, then hand him the check. If he resists (which he might, after your recent behavior), make him accept it, along with an apology for your selfishness, immaturity and cheapness. Catâs Call: Only one person should be furious and itâs certainly not you.
DEAR CAT: In light of your column last week about casual vs. serious relationships, do you think a person has the right to demand a commitment from someone theyâre sleeping with? Iâm in a similar situation to last weekâs guy, but in my scenario the woman Iâm seeing is commitment-resistant. Iâve always preferred commitment to casual dating so a couple can see if theyâre right for each other. Itâs been four months and I want us to be exclusive because how can we know if there is a future here unless we stop seeing other people? She says she would do it if we are sure that we love each other, but otherwise itâs better to stay open. I say love takes time and I canât know yet. Your call? — COMMIT ME
DEAR COMMIT: I understand both sides, but her position is the most fair. Thereâs only one reason why youâd want a committed relationship if youâre not in love; you simply want a girlfriend, which is totally fine, but she only wants a boyfriend who openly loves her. You say love takes time â ok, why not wait for it? Thereâs no imminent reason why both of you should close out all other romantic possibilities for anything less than love. Youâre always allowed to ask for what you want, but at this stageâ¦Catâs Call: Demanding it is not the best way to get it.
Good morning, Cat! I realize with every passing day that the road my wife and I took to get to where we are in our relationship now has fewer and fewer travelers, but for what it’s worth, here is our take on commitment. Something about sex bonds a person to another. There’s a closeness and intimacy that goes beyond just skin-and-body-parts-in-contact. Sometimes people can mistake that closeness with a commitment that just isn’t there yet. Even one night stands leave an intimacy ‘mark’ on a person, so when people get intimate early in a relationship when one or both are uncertain as to the future of it, it leaves confusion and, like the reader above, a displaced desire for commitment from her when she doesn’t have it yet. The man who was engaged to my wife before we met cheated on her twice (I still am picking up pieces from him, unfortunately), so she was naturally opposed to any relationship which had no obvious commitment. I loved her before she loved me, and she had many hoops for me (or any man) to jump through to guage my commitment before she would be intimate with me. She was worth it (still is!) so I started jumping. It took awhile, but here’s the whacked out part: our realtionship and commitment grew WITHOUT the physical intimacy, because the internal intimacy was based on trust and the promise of long-term rewards. I am rolling in those rewards, Cat, and the best part of our 9 year marriage? I completely trust her and I am out-of-my-gourd commited to her, and she to me. That is just downright sexy! And every area of our lives together from the mundane chores to the bedroom fun is simply enhanced by that commitment. Those are my two cents…Have a great day, Cat! Love the column!
— Jon in Bradenton, FL 05/05/2009 Reply
Cat,
You missed an important point in Commit Me’s letter. He wanted a commitment from someone he is sleeping with, but the woman is not willing to do that. Of course he wants a commitment, he is having sex with someone who is not exclusive, which puts him at risk for STD and AIDS! If she is not willing to be exclusive, then they should not be having sex.
— anonymous 05/05/2009 Reply
I donât think your advice to the couple buying a house should pay the real estate agent a fee is acurate. In most cases the seller pays the agents commission, not the buyer.
— You’re right, of course. But in this case the agent didn't broker the deal, the couple is negotiating directly with the seller. Therefore, they owe their friend a “finder’s fee” for discovering the house. Thanks for offering your call… -- Cat
— florida 05/05/2009 Reply
Spot on for your dressing down of the cheapos who were outraged that their realtor friend wanted a little kicked back to him! (Truth be told, if I were the realtor friend, I very likely might have skipped the baksheesh….all the while figuring that my friends would insist on floating me a little on the back end. Complicated when you work for friends.)
— Jim 05/05/2009 Reply
The commenter “jim” is right on about working with friends except the realtor clearly sensed the couple WASN’T planning on giving him anything. If I was in his position I’d end the friendship… AFTER getting my share. Life’s hard and everyone deserves something for their efforts.
— hoodaman, baltimore 05/05/2009 Reply
My call: I agree the realtor friend should get something, but a full commission? Yes he found the house and he DEFINITELY deserves something for that but if he’s not the one doing all the paperwork and contracts through the entire process he really will not have earned a ton.
— Excellent point, Shannon. —Cat
— Shannon, Pittsburgh 05/05/2009 Reply
Cat, there is no way this realtor is due a commission or finders fee. First off, as someone said, commissions are typically paid by the seller. Secondly, where is the contract? Any agent who truly was seeking an engagement to do work would have firmed this up in writing. Go find any well respected agent and ask if they would start showing houses without a written agreement specifying a flat fee or percentage. If so, they would only be showing houses listed (contractually) by another agent, thus ensuring a commission split. This agent was grasping for straws, and now that he luckily found one, he’s going to leverage his friendship to coerce a commission check? My bet? This agent won’t be in the real estate business very long.
— Rick in Pittsburgh, PA 05/05/2009 Reply
My call: I completely disagree with Cat’s recommendation to pay a “finder’s fee” to the real estate agent. Agents’ fees are set in the agreements that are executed by their customers, and those fees are discussed and negotiated before services are rendered so that there’s no confusion later. It doesn’t sound like any such discussions or agreement were “in play” here. Because of that, the couple involved was likely wholly blindsided by a request to pay what I’d guess is thousands of dollars to a friend who is not even their “agent.”
I’m a professional and I frequently offer to help friends out with their problems (and I’ve never asked for a dime). If I didn’t mention payment at the time of the offer and then demanded payment afterwards, I’d have no friends at all.
— Christian, Pittsburgh 05/05/2009 Reply
Hey Cat,
I was looking at your last couple twitter posts and you’re right it is interesting that more people are responding about real estate/money than the sex question! Not that money isn’t important because we all know it is. My call about the second question is: He feels rejected by her refusal to commit but he’s not offering anything worthwhile aside from commitment itself. You REALLY hit that point home. She’s saying: if we love each other, yes! If not, why limit ourselves? I think he is completely missing that point.
— Amy - Pgh 05/05/2009 Reply
Too many guys frequently make the huge wrong assumption that all women automatically want commitments. COMMIT ME is doing just that. He scored regular sex with a woman he likes (not loves, important note!) and he wants to lock it down. All the while he wants to make sure she’s not giving it up too much to other guys, because that’s a big ego kill. He better propose more than exclusivity to get her because she’s not havin it. As a man, I don’t blame her. She’s being smart.
— Guy (that's actually my first name, lol) in brooklyn 05/05/2009 Reply
Horsefeathers. (FRIENDSHIP AND MONEY DONâT MIX.) Rick and Christian are right on the money. If this guy was acting as a friend, not as a Realtor, he has a lot of gall charging his friends. It’s not much different than if Cat was looking for a house, and one of Cat’s friends called and said, “Hey, I saw a great house for sale on Fourth Street. It’s perfect. You should look at it.”
If he WAS acting as a Realtor, then he should have presented his friend with a contract, like most other Realtors would do, laying out the commission rate clearly. And he should be overseeing the closing paperwork, title searches, etc, stuff that is executed out by a Realtor. (I suspect in this case it’s being handled by the lending institution, since there is no real estate company involved in the transaction.)
Further, if a buyer who is represented by an agent is interested in a for-sale-by-owner home, the buyer and the seller often negotiate the finder’s fee (or a “selling commission”) into the sales price, and that fee then comes out of the sale. In other words, this guy should NOT be cutting a check to his pal, the Realtor.
Sounds to me that, if anything, the Realtor is trying to squeeze his friend for a few hundred or even a few thousand bucks during a slow time for home sales. Which is a lousy, greedy thing to do. Either you’re doing a favor for a person or you’re not — and if you are, then you don’t ask to be paid. (That said, it certainly doesn’t preclude the buyers from slipping the guy a check, or taking him out to a fancy dinner, or buying him an expensive bottle of Scotch. It’s just that he really shouldn’t be ASKING for the cash. That’s graceless.)
Even a 2 percent finder’s fee (of, say, a $200,000 home) amounts to $4,000. I don’t know what kind of percentage this Realtor wants to “charge” his friend (usually anywere from 0.5 percent to 3 percent is in the normal range), but imagine if you were searching for a home on your own, you casually mention it to one of your friends, and later he says, Hey, I found a nice home — and then he sends you an invoice for $4,000, or $3,000, or $2,000. Now THAT’s cheap and immature.
— Max in Mt. Lebanon 05/05/2009 Reply
Hi Cat,
I think I need to know more about the whole real estate situation. I can’t tell if the realtor is doing the negotiations for the couple -if so, then yes, a commission should be paid.
If he simply is asking for a commission because he told them about a house (did he even show it to them), then I would have to disagree that they owe him any money.
My gut feeling is that this realtor is assuming way too much -for doing nothing. I don’t think legally these folks owe him a dime since there is no contract involved….plus, again -did this realtor do any of the work?
We all need more info from this writer…
— Debbie, Pittsburgh, PA 05/05/2009 Reply
I’m so tired of this “sex without commitment” stuff. I am not a prude, but remained single until I was almost 37. If a man (or woman) doesn’t want to commit and they are sleeping with you, I think you are just fooling yourself and wasting time. Hasn’t anyone read the book (or seen the movie) “He’s just not that into you”?
Come on people, if someone really wants to be with you, they will. Now quit selling yourself short and save that intimate part of yourself for someone worthy.
I’m giving this a big old Pittsburgh “geez o man”
— Debbie, Pittsburgh, PA 05/05/2009 Reply
Re Paying finders fee. Bravo Cat! I am sick to death of people expecting friends to donate their skills and knowledge for free. Would either of these people be willing to use their professional skills for a friend for free? This guy makes his living on commissions and they want to cut into that? How many CPAs are made uncomfortable enough that they do their “friends” taxes for free? How many doctors or nurses are disturbed at home or in social gatherings by “friends” seeking free medical advice. Yet, say no to one of these “friends” and you are the evil, greedy person. I am sick to death of the me first thinking. It’s time for all these whiners and cheapskates to grow up and be adults.
— Mary Dulgeroff, Pittsburgh 05/05/2009 Reply
Dear Commit Me, there are plenty of women out there who ARE willing to commit. Don’t waste your time with one that is not. Seems to me that you are just another guy to fill another night. Remember, when you sleep with her, you are also sleeping with every other guy she’s been with or with right now—and that might have been the night before. Is that what you REALLY want in a woman?
— Chris, Pittsburgh 05/05/2009 Reply
Cat,
Sounds like every one of the agents who replied to your commission problem is under the same understanding that unless they have a written agreement “Buyers Agency Agreement” with the buyer they are not due a dime. I am a full time agent who has on many occasions had a friend not use me for buying or selling a house. When I was a young hungry agent I to took it defensively and was hurt when my friends did not work with me, then I grew up. Just because we can share a bottle of wine does not mean they want to disclose all their personal financial decisions with me. Work is work and I get great pleasure in helping a client negotiate the transaction of buying their dream home. I also love to offer up help to my friends when asked.
If this agent was truly looking out for his friends he would have explained how important it is to have an agent represent you the buyer in a transaction and then helped them find a good fit for their needs. The agent friend could have earned himself a referral fee and kept his friendship intact by taking a more professional approach.
— Mashel NorthHills 05/05/2009 Reply
I’m the first one to admit I’m no prude but as I get older (I’m 33) I’m starting to think casual sexual relationships are not a good idea. I’ve had them many times (actually I’m in one now) but it’s like they don’t make you feel very good after a little while. If Mr. Commit Me wasn’t sleeping with her he might not be so hell bent on commitment. The sex could be screwing with his perception of who/what he really wants. From where I’m sitting he doesn’t seem to like her enough to have her as a girlfriend but he wants it anyway, out of principle. That’s not romantic! My call/question: would you want her if you hadn’t slept with her yet? I say no.
— K.D. pittsburgh 05/06/2009 Reply