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His Wedding Might Break His Family's Bank & A Dishwasher Comes Between Friends
Tuesday, December 01, 2009
DEAR CAT: My brother is getting married on a cruise ship in Miami before departing for the Caribbean with his in-laws. Our family was invited to the wedding but not the cruise. Most of the family lives in the northeast and my brother expects us to fly to Miami for a 30 minute event so he can go on a honeymoon paid for by his new family. I and others find this very insulting. My sister said she canât come because, having just had a baby, she neither wants to put an infant on a plane for a 30 minute ceremony nor does she wish to leave the baby. My brother berated her for being selfish to the point of her crying. My husband has been unemployed for 8 months and we canât afford to fly across the country (we live in Vancouver, WA) for a 30 minute ceremony. Even if we did, thatâs a ton of traveling for a 30 minute event. My brother thinks we are selfish while we think heâs being selfish. Am I the selfish one and just donât know it? —FORGOTTEN MY MANNERS
DEAR FORGOTTEN: There seems to be selfishness on both sides. Your brother sounds like a groomzilla and thereâs no question he owes your sister an apology but I canât ignore your repeated use of the phrase â30 minute event,â as you so lovingly refer to his wedding. Would a 90 minute ceremony be more significant? Thereâs more to this story – perhaps his fiancéeâs family money? Itâs not unusual for the brideâs family to pay for the honeymoon and why should you be invited on their cruise? You seem bitter about that point but there arenât many newlyweds who would turn down a free honeymoon in the Caribbean. Above all, a wedding is a unique, special occasion and you donât sound happy for him. If you truly canât afford the trip, youâll have to miss the ceremony. Thatâs unfortunate but you can always throw him a party down the road. Catâs Call: If it makes you feel better, call it a â3 hour event.â
DEAR CAT: A year ago I borrowed $500 from a friend for a small medical procedure. She wanted to give it to me but I was more comfortable with a loan, so she agreed to let me pay it back in small amounts every month. I give her $20 or $30 every month and she always thanks me for it. Recently I bought a dishwasher (which Iâve never had) and she commented how âfunnyâ it is that I could afford it when I havenât paid her back. I canât get her comment out of my head. Am I wrong for buying the dishwasher before paying her back? Should I return it? — IN DEBT TO A FRIEND
DEAR DEBT: No and no. You and your friend agreed to a payback schedule and youâve adhered to it. As such you have the right to buy whatever you want and she has zero right to judge you for it. She made a snide moment, try to forget it and donât let it turn into an issue. Catâs Call: Enjoy the dishwasher in good health.
Whatâs YOUR call? Share it below! Submit column questions here or send snail mail to: Catâs Call, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 34 Blvd. of the Allies, Pittsburgh, PA 15222.
Cat, I think you got it wrong on the the dishwasher reply. If someone is borrowing money for a medical procedure and asks to pay it back in small increments, I believe the understanding was this person is having financial trouble and the friend is willing to help. If the person’s financial situation changes enough to now buy a dishwasher which is not a necessity, I would expect that person to increase the payback schedule for loan or pay it back before the purchase.
— Sharon, Pittsburgh 12/01/2009 Reply
Cat, I normally agree with your comments, but this time I totally disagree with you, The brother in this case is very selfish to expect his family to fly across the country, if they could afford it, that would be fine, but as they explained they are not financially capable of doing so. Why couldn’t the brother pay for them to be there, since his honeymoon is being picked up by the in-law? He sounds very cheap and self-centered, is that the way this new generation is?
— Zeeman in Pittsburgh 12/01/2009 Reply
I hate to say this, but I think Forgotten My Manners and her sister are both potentially justified in not attending the Miami Wedding. But maybe the way to get around it is for the two sisters and their family to create their own event (a family vacation in Miami, for instance) surrounding the brother’s wedding. I do think that the brother and his bride should have planned a more significant “event”; assuming Forgotten’s take on it as a “30 minute event” is accurate; but even if he didn’t, the two sisters can demonstrate a little more class than he has by putting on their best manners if at all possible; attend, do more than the brother has planned, and have a great time.
As for Ms Debt, Cat was/is 100% right. Ms. Debt shouldn’t sweat the comment of her beloved Creditor; it may have been a little bit tasteless (it may even have been a joke – I sometimes make strange jokes like that), and Ms. Debt is over-thinking it. If her beloved Creditor friend makes one or two more comments along the same lines (assuming she isn’t extending the joke), then maybe Ms Debt should go into default. ;-)
— Carm in Pittsburgh 12/01/2009 Reply
The first question about the brothers wedding is hard because a: they don’t have the money to go and b: he’s not being very nice so why would they want to go?? I agree with Cat that it’s family and they should act happy for him. On the other hand he needs to be more understanding. Cat has the best idea: brother should have his quickie wedding and when he makes it back up to the northeast they can have a belated reception/party. On the 2nd question the friend is a bitch for making that comment! The dishwasher probably costs her $20 per month and it’s none of the “lender’s” business as long as she’s getting paid on schedule. That’s my call anyway!
— Carrie in da burgh! 12/01/2009 Reply
Hi Cat. This is Stewart’s Call: One time I loaned a few hundred bucks to my buddy. He paid me back two months later maybe. During that two months we lived life like normal. I didn’t get on him if he went out to dinner with his girlfriend or went to a game. Occasionally you need a chunk of money right away and that’s where I came in. It doesn’t mean life stops and you don’t eat or go out or do anything because you borrowed a little money. There are two sides to every story but this friend sounds bitchy.
— S., Brooklyn 12/01/2009 Reply
On the second question…it seems to me that men would not act like this with each other. My husband has lent money to his friends here and there over the years and it’s never talked about. Then one day it’s paid back and that’s it. When women do this it’s a big issue with all this judgement. As “S. in Brooklyn” says sometimes you need a good amount at one time, that’s a whole different story than paying off a dishwasher over a couple years. This is one area where women should relax and be a little more like men :)
— Cheyenne (Pittsburgh, PA) 12/01/2009 Reply
If I owe somebody money, I would find it very difficult to go out and buy myself a major appliance when I still owe money to my friend. Regardless of how she is paying for the dishwasher, be a friend right back and pay off your debt or increase the monthly amount before buying something that you’ve lived without this long anyway. I agree that, if you have to borrow the money in the first place, it does give the impression that finances are tight. Pay debt off first, then pay yourself.
— MCC, Pittsburgh 12/01/2009 Reply
Cat, I’m with you on both sides being selfish in Forgotten’s case. It’s wrong for Groomzilla to chew out his sister, and it’s also wrong for Forgotten to parse the wedding down to a “30 minute event.” The repeated use of that phrase sounds like rationalization to me, a deliberate exclusion of the reception and other festivities that might be planned for both before and after the ceremony. My sister’s wedding (which included a long weekend’s worth of events) would be a “45 minute event” by that standard, never mind the rehearsal dinner, the wine tasting, etc.
As for Debt, there’s info missing from the picture. Did Debt put the dishwasher on credit or pay cash for it? If the latter is true, I think the friend would have a right to be miffed, but perhaps not to the point of actually saying anything (I don’t think I would). Then there’s also the tone of the comment, which we can’t see well in text — was it snide or meant to be a tease? Regardless, the payment plan was agreed upon by both parties, so Debt’s conscience should remain clean.
— Mike Brendan, Pittsburgh 12/01/2009 Reply
My Call: The commenter MCC makes a valid point. My guilt would be there if I owed a friend money and then bought myself something expensive before paying it back. It’s possible the medical expense came out of nowhere and all of a sudden “In Debt” had to come up with $500 and her friend said, “don’t worry about it, just get it taken care of and let me help you.” In that case there’s really nothing wrong here. If on the other hand In Debt’s medical cost was purely vanity and non-emergency then it’s kind of messed up that she hasn’t paid it back. The medical reason is the key here.
— Chicky, Chicago 12/01/2009 Reply
If you read the second question a few times you see how succinctly Cat tackled it (I’m impressed!). Re: Chicky’s comments….You’re judging the merit of the initial loan based on why she spent $500 in the first place. It’s not relevant though, is Cat’s point. If a friend lends you money for something and there’s a payback plan as in this case, and the borrower is paying it back perfectly, that’s all there is to it. The lender can choose not to lend it. Holding the loan over her friend’s head isn’t right. I’m no sexist but Cheyenne in Pitt makes a great point too!
— Ted in LA 12/01/2009 Reply
Both these questions made me think about what I would do in those situations. I know I would go to my brother’s wedding no matter how “selfish” he was acting. Perhaps if I was the sister with the new baby, then there’s a chance I wouldn’t go but I probably would find a way (I have two children and I love my ‘given’ family just the same). The second question: I would never help a friend and then make a comment. If you lend someone money and they’re paying it back you don’t have the right to say a thing. I would be happy for my friend that with my financial help she is able to get herself something nice and not feel guilty about it. Thank you.
— Mrs. M. Pennsylvania 12/01/2009 Reply
About the “supposed” Groomzilla…..She mentions she doesn’t have the money to fly across the country for a 30-minute ceremony but would she find a way if invited on the cruise?? Does is make a difference? My call is if she’s really strapped for money, stay home and save up a few dollars to buy the newlyweds a nice present. If not, then stop being so petty and buy yourself a ticket on the stupid cruise.
— CJ - Pittsburgh 12/01/2009 Reply
i think that if you borrow money and you are making payments to a friend, then if you have the money, pay it off. don’t let money come between a friendship. i think the girls are both wrong. the lender never should have made a comment; but the borrower should have paid the friend back before making a big purchase. it wasn’t a little purchase, like meals, an outfit…it was a dishwasher. those things aren’t that cheap. unless she got it used or a scratch and dent store. but if you know you have the money, be nice and pay it back. after all your friend whether she bullied you into taking it and said it was okay to make payments, was nice enough and concerned enough to give a friend money. do the right thing and pay it back quick enough so that little comments aren’t necessary. who’s to say that the borrower in this story hasn’t made purchases all along and maybe that’s why the lender did say something??? we’re all assuming that a dishwasher is all she bought. people like to justify their wrong actions to themselves and maybe she conveniently forgot to add in all of the other purchases that she has made. if you are going to borrow from a friend and take the money, then make sure you pay it back as quick as you can. it’s just common courtesy.
— kim ruckel, ross township 12/01/2009 Reply
Hi, Cat – I think one point that was missing was that everyone was being asked to fly to the cruise’s departure city for the wedding (not clear if the brother lives there or not) and that there seems to be no reception/party planned for the people coming in for the wedding. I believe that is why she emphasizes “30-minute event.” Even when there is a wedding & a reception, out of town guests are usually feted and entertained. In this case, they get to arrive, attend the wedding, and that’s it. A generous-spirited brother who wanted to share the event with his family during this down economic time wouldn’t expect everyone to come to him for the church(?) service. He’d plan a party to include them all—perhaps in his/their hometown. That’s my take on it, for what it’s worth.
— H. 12/01/2009 Reply
Cat – I generally agree with you on both points, but my reading of the wedding question is that the ceremony if on the cruise ship, which WOULD make it a short ceremony, before the ship leaves port, so perhaps the 30 minute emphasis is valid. The impression given is that the brother is being very insensitive to his family, and rude in yelling at his sister. On the other hand, the writer seems to be biased because of his/her sense of hurt over not being invited on the cruise (since they imply they WOULD go if invited on the whole cruise which is hypocritical), so the writer is being selfish too. I completely agree that expecting to be invited on the honeymoon cruise is selfish and bizarre. Overall, brother should be more sensitive and either throw a nice dinner/party for the out of town guests before the cruise OR have an gathering afterward, closer to his family. When my cousin married, money was tight for them, so they had a small, intimate wedding ceremony and dinner, and then, about a year later, they threw a larger party when they could afford it. It was fun to celebrate with them (who cares about the WHEN) and they had less stress (financially and emotionally) by separating the events. Moreover, they were thoughtful and kind, inviting us to stay with them since we traveled the farthest to attend. That is how you show your family that you care and are sensitive to them. If I were the writer, I’d go but, as someone below suggested, make a family trip out of it by sharing a rental and staying a few days – it might be affordable if they share in the cost – OR suggest a later celebration to your brother. Good luck!
— Karen C - Pittsburgh 12/01/2009 Reply
Here’s my take on both of these. On the wedding – if they can afford to and want to attend the wedding, they should go, regardless of the length. If they can’t afford to go, they should just say so and be done with it and send whatever gift they think is appropriate. The length of the event and whether it is “worth it” for them to attend does not matter. Of course this is the problem with “destination” weddings of any kind, and couples should not complain if people decide not to travel to attend them.
On the loan – I don’t think that a medical bill and a dishwasher are comparable. The person receiving the loan should have paid back her friend before buying a discretionary item, period.
— nn from NJ 12/01/2009 Reply
I don’t think it is fair for folks who want to get married with a “destination wedding” to expect others to follow them. The brother here is totally out of line in my book.
I feel like the sister who wrote in is not being understood correctly. I think she mentioned that it is “30 minutes” just to further explain how crazy it is to fly cross country under all the circumstances they are under. I’m sure the family would go if it were an easier situation. Please give them a break! It sounds to me like their brother is a complete jerk and someone who is not easy to deal with. What a little brat he must be! Get a life!
I’m glad I eloped now -and did not invite anyone -for this very reason.
For the dishwasher situation -yes you had a deal with someone to pay them back in increments, but I feel you should pay the person you have a debt to first before buying things like this. They aren’t a bank -and I’m sure in this economy could use their money more than you need a dishwasher. Set your priorities straight!
— Debbie, Mt. Lebanon 12/01/2009 Reply
WHY MEN SHOULDN’T WRITE ADVICE COLUMNS
Dear John,
I hope you can help me. The other day, I set off for work leaving my husband in the house watching TV. My car stalled and then it broke down about a mile down the road and I had to walk back to get my husband’s help. When I got home, I couldn’t believe my eyes. He was in our bedroom with the neighbor’s daughter! I am 32, my husband is 34, and the neighbor’s daughter is 19. We have been married for ten years. When I confronted him, he broke down and admitted that they had been having an affair for the past six months. He won’t go to counseling. I am a wreck and need advice urgently. Can you please help? Sincerely, Sheila
************ ********* **********
Dear Sheila,
A car stalling after being driven a short distance can be caused by a variety of faults with the engine. Start by checking that there is no debris in the fuel line. If it is clear, check the vacuum pipes and hoses on the intake manifold and also check all grounding wires. If none of these approaches solves the problem, it could be that the fuel pump itself is faulty, causing low delivery pressure to the injectors. I hope this helps, John.
— Carm in Pittsburgh 12/02/2009 Reply
Cat in what universe do you live in that you feel “Itâs not unusual for the brideâs family to pay for the honeymoon…”? In the universe I live it it is not unusual for both families and the couple to pitch in so they all pay for the wedding and the honeymoon is paid for by the couple. Also in my universe for family the wedding is more than just the ceremony, there is the rehearsal, the ceremony, the reception and a gathering afterward (usually informal and doesn’t always include the couple.) So yes to be crass it is worth the money to buy a ticket to go to something like there where you can see your family for more than 30 minutes. I know someone that did this there was no time to socialize with the couple and if you were not going on the cruise you were kicked off the ship (rightfully if you don’t have a ticket.). That is a lot of hassle etc. I think the groom is being a touch unreasonable and I think the family could have phrased things better but I can understand why they can’t or won’t make the effort to go.
As for the dishwasher, personally I would have paid off the friend before buying the dishwasher. However if the person that loaned the money just said pay back X amount each month and the person is doing it and there were no additional terms such as not buying non essential items worth more than $500 before the loan is paid off then the loaner should not have an issue. This is just another reason why it is generally not a good idea to loan money to friends. And if you do you should understand that your friend’s expectations may not meet yours or vice versa.
— WES, Mass 12/03/2009 Reply
Never lend money to a friend or family member if your going to be mad if it is never paid back. Expect that something will happen that wont allow that person to pay you back. There are those rare occasions where the friend or family member comes thru and pays back. Hopefully this is one of those chances. Be happy that you have a friend that came thru and gave you the money when you needed it.
— shawn- unknown 12/03/2009 Reply