Columns
In Vino Veritas? And...First A Quickie, Then A Biggie
Tuesday, December 29, 2009
DEAR CAT: I’ve been with my boyfriend for just under a year. He hasn’t proposed yet but we’ve talked about the future and things are great. The problem is that a couple of weekends ago he got incredibly drunk and we were talking about the future and he tells me he’s not sure he sees us together. I asked him what he meant and he said he didn’t know and shortly after fell asleep. In the morning I told him what happened and he didn’t remember. He brushed it off as drunken rambling and apologized. He said he didn’t have any second thoughts about us. He’s very good at communicating and I want to be confident I’m in a strong relationship (he’s never given me reason not to believe it), but I can’t let it go and I wish I knew why he would say something like that, drunk or not. Should I let go and any advice on how?? — STILL CANâT LET IT GO
DEAR STILL: There are two approaches you can take. 1) In vino veritas â in wine there is truth. 2) When youâre drunk you donât always say what you mean. I tend to believe in both, depending upon the circumstances. In your case he may adore you and truly want a future with you, but that doesnât mean heâs not scared and the drink might have loosened his tongue about his fear. On the flip side, âfutureâ talk is nice but if you only want to be in a relationship thatâll lead to marriage, itâs time to have the âmarriageâ conversation. Wait until after the holidays, when life returns to normal speed, then talk. Donât fight or give an ultimatum (yet), just talk. Good luck, and in the meantimeâ¦.Catâs Call: Best wishes for a fabulous 2010!
DEAR CAT: My nephew got married through a justice of the peace over two years ago. I didnât find out they got married until months after the fact. He and his wife now want to have a wedding with all the trimmings, so to speak. I can understand wanting to renew your vows in a church ceremony with family members present, and then have a small party, but I donât understand a big wedding with a bridal shower and reception after. I think itâs just plain tacky. What do you think? â BE TASTEFUL, NOT TACKY
DEAR TASTEFUL: Getting married is like losing your virginity; itâs not always storybook special but it still counts. Trying to recreate it years later? Many have tried and all have failed. I took an informal Cat Poll about this and 90% of respondents agree with you. The key issue is the unusually long time span (two years!) between the weddings. Several voters said, âhaving a big wedding years later makes it look like they just want gifts.â Although the coupleâs desire to have a do-over is understandable, they should take a romantic view of their quickie two years ago and simply renew their vows and have a party with their family and friends. But since they insist on a big to-do, look on the bright sideâ¦.Catâs Call: At least this time you were invited!
Whatâs your call? Share it below! Submit column questions here or send snail mail to: Catâs Call, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 34 Blvd. of the Allies, Pittsburgh, PA 15222.
My call: I agree it isn’t in the classiest taste to have a big all-out wedding two years later. It definitely does look like they’re trying to score gifts. On the other hand Cat makes a good point that this time around the aunt will have a chance to see the vows being taken and give a real gift (even if she thinks the wedding is tacky) to her nephew on his wedding day.
— Mr. Patrick, Pgh 12/29/2009 Reply
Cat,
I have to comment on your(and others) opinion regarding a wedding 2 years after the marriage. The only people who should question this event are those paying for it. As a parent I might question this tactic as a gift grab, as a guest there should be no question. A reception is purely an event to celebrate the union of a couple which is this case sounds as though it was never done. You bring a gift to not only celebrate the union but also as a sign of respect for the party that was provided for you. My wife an I were recently married and had a “big” wedding. It was not out of control but what seems to be the norm in todays bloated wedding world. I don’t want to sound ungrateful as we did truely appreciate every gift that was recieved, big or small. But the $50 check or blender that was received did not in any way equate to what was spent per guest. I know nothing of the background of this couple but maybe they just did the right thing(in the eyes of so many) got married and it took them 2 years to afford the wedding that they truely wanted. So in conclusion, who cares if they want to have their wedding 2 years later go to the party, enjoy the food and take advantage of the open bar.
— Keith Pittsburgh 12/29/2009 Reply
“Still can’t let it go” should be more concerned about the fact of her boyfriend’s getting that drunk, than what, exactly, he meant by what he said.
If one sees a warning roadsign that looks like a snake, it is well to slow down and anticipate some bad road ahead. Never mind what he “meant;” worry about what he “did.”
— Carole, Waynesburg 12/29/2009 Reply
Cat I see what you’re saying to “Can’t Let It Go” but a girlfriend should take a drunken rambling like that as a bad bad sign. You know it (I can tell) but I think you didn’t want to depress her at holiday time. John’s Call: She SHOULDN’T “let it go.” She seems intelligent and who knows how old they are but women ignore this stuff and make excuses, then they get bitten in the ass down the line. On the 2nd question about the wedding….cheeez city to milk gifts off your family/friends two years later.
— John, Los Angeles 12/29/2009 Reply
Keith in Pittsburgh is absolutely foul for suggesting that the gifts his guests gave him were not equivalent to what was spent per guest! I gasp! Why? Because it is that same attitude that prompts the couple in the story to think it appropriate to turn back the hands of time to get that which can no longer be given. It is selfish and self-absorbed. It is one thing to have a party to invite people to celebrate with you but to have the pre-wedding parties (bridal shower) is gluttony times 10.
Furthermore, Keith, guests are not required to cover the costs of your wedding. You should spend within your means and no, you are not being appreciative you are being ungrateful.
As to the lady who wants to find some rational explanation for her chap’s drunken monologue – let him and it go at the same time. There is no future there and you are only kidding yourself.
— West Indya, PIttsburgh 12/29/2009 Reply
West,
You miss understood me. I was not suggesting that the gifts given should cover the cost of the wedding. My point being that rather the wedding costs more than the gifts recieved so how do people feel that a couple spending their money to invite you to party is a gift grab. From a finacial perpective it would make more sense to have no wedding and buy whatever they are seeking from their registery. If a couple is having a big wedding it is because the couple wishes to have a celebration and invite all their friends and family, not to get gifts.
— Keith Pittsburgh 12/29/2009 Reply
On the second question about the guy who got drunk, John from LA makes a great point: women ignore this stuff and make excuses. I wonder if a lot of marriages wouldn’t happen if people were straight with each other about their feelings I wouldn’t marry someone (or stay with them in a committed thing) if they had any doubts about me. About the wedding question: two years later is too long if you expect gifts. btw……..happy new year!
— SamIAm 12/29/2009 Reply
RE: STILL CANâT LET IT GO
There’s no future with an incredibly drunk man.
— Marc, Squirrel Hill 12/29/2009 Reply
How sad that so many people think of a wedding purely as a “gift grab” opportunity for the couple. In many cultures, people give gifts without an elaborate wedding, simply because giving gifts is a kind and thoughtful thing to do – and you need not overspend or spend at all. Moreover, although his first comment was not artfully written, I agree with Kevin that the gifts received do not compensate the couple in any way if the wedding is anything but super-cheap. I always think of the reception as a party for the guests, so everyone can celebrate together (although many brides/grooms do seem to think it is all about THEM these days – sigh). Maybe it would have been a tad more tasteful of the couple to say “no gifts” on the invite, since they’ve been married a while; but, at the same time, the aunt (or any guest) should be happy to celebrate with the happy couple. People get too hung up on protocol sometimes – just go enjoy & yourself!
As for Still Can’t Let It Go – I think you should be concerned b/c uninhibited truths can come out when someone is drunk; but you also owe it to your boyfriend to talk about these things and let him acknowledge if he has fears or nerves – and find out why. I think the “why” will control whether or not he will get over his fears. Good luck!
— Karen C - Pittsburgh 12/29/2009 Reply
In reference to “Be Tasteful”, I just attended a wedding for a couple that have been married for 25 year. Yes, I guess you can call it a renewal of vows BUT the bride called it the ‘wedding she never had’.
Wedding was complete with wedding dress, groom tux, bridesmaids (daughters), flower girl (granddaughter), father-of-bride, rings, flowers, food, drink, band and 250 guests.
It was tasteful, cheerful, happy, tearful, touching and one of the best wedding receptions I have been to in a long time.
Not everyone is looking for gifts. Maybe it is about sharing a monumental occasion with friends and family.
— Annette -Pittsburgh 12/29/2009 Reply
On the wedding – the couple will probably spend a lot of money and be disappointed with the wedding “do-over”, but that’s their problem. The aunt should go, assuming she wants to, and give whatever gift she thinks is appropriate. The couple can do whatever they want, but that doesn’t mean everyone else has to go along with the program.
On the boyfriend – I think being too drunk to remember what happened is much more of a concern than whether he is being sincere. I’d want to get a very good understanding of how often he gets sloshed and then decide whether it is worth spending more time and effort on the relationship.
— nn from NJ 12/29/2009 Reply
The day the couple JOP’ed it was their wedding day. Cat is right on. The couple made the choice to have a small private WEDDING and not tell their family, you don’t get a “do-over”. You get ONE wedding. Call it whatever you want, but don’t call it a wedding!
— kat11 - Pittsburgh 12/29/2009 Reply
Boy are people ever quick to judge.
On the married couple wishing to throw a wedding, Keith is right – if there are things a couple needs or even wants, it is far cheaper for them to just buy those things. Most couples today pay for at least part of their own weddings; it’s not like they’re getting a free party. Many couples specifically request “no gifts,” and they mean it.
Frankly, I think waiting for the wedding is actually more considerate towards guests in this age of divorce…have the wedding after you know your marriage was the right decision. That sounds pretty classy to me.
As to Still, a lot of people here are jumping to conclusions about her boyfriend having been drunk. There is a HUGE difference between “he got drunk” and “he gets drunk.” Nothing about Still’s letter suggests that her boyfriend is a habitual drunk, and in fact it actually suggests the opposite – if he got drunk a lot, Still would be ruminating on more than one night’s worth of comments and behavior.
— MYOB 12/30/2009 Reply
Re: BE TASTEFUL, NOT TACKY
A friend of mine referred me to this particular column, as I find myself in this situation right now. I find Cat’s response (and many of the comments) completely off the mark. My now-husband and I made a decision in early December to get married and were married by the end of the month in a very short, small affair at which most of our most immediate family members were present. We have been together for almost 10 years and this was done primarily for legal and financial reasons. At the time we made the decision and announced it to our family and friends, we made it clear that we fully intend to have a larger, more traditional ceremony sometime in the next year or two, when we can better plan for it and finance it, and so that our larger circle of family and friends could be included. We expect that this will include the normal complement of dresses, flowers, reception and, yes, showers and gifts (since we specifically asked that the guests at our recent nuptials NOT give gifts) – but instead of taking our vows for the first time, we will be renewing them. Our family and friends were nothing but happy to hear of our plans – they know that our “first” wedding was mostly for legal purposes and this second wedding is meant to be the more sentimental, traditional affiar. In fact, several family members told us that they would actually be disappointed if we didn’t go through with the more formal ceremony later, since they want us to experience all the memorable aspects of a traditional event. Maybe we’re different because we made the decision up-front to have a more traditional ceremony down the road (and told everyone up-front of our plans), but I find the comments that we’ll be disappointed with our later ceremony and the insinuation that we’re doing it as a gift-grab to be insulting and ill-considered. And to address the “gift grab” comment directly – do I want a shower and will we be appreciative gifts of any gifts we receive at our future ceremony? Sure – because that’s part of the enjoyment of the overall experience of having a wedding, and just because we decided to get the legalities out of the way early doesn’t mean we don’t deserve to enjoy that aspect of the experience.
— Just Married, Pgh 01/01/2010 Reply
I had to respond to the comment by “just married” who says she finds cat’s advice (and anyone else who disagrees with her) to be “insulting.” Your situation is ten times more insulting than the question in the column! You want a wedding okay. You want a party okay. But you want a bridal shower TEN YEARS later??? That’s a total “gift-grab” as you call it. The whole point of giving gifts to a newly married couple is to help them get started in their life together. You’ve been married for ten frikkin years! Now you’re going to force all your friends and family to treat you like you’re just starting out and have no hand towels or kitchen appliances or stemware, that’s ridiculous! Just have a party and invite everyone you love and spare them the unfair pressure of spending a fortune on you and pretending your big wedding is anything other than a longtime married couple wanting to be treated like poor struggling newlyweds.
— Jack S. -Buffalo 01/02/2010 Reply
Wow – I’m weighing twice on this one, but to Jack S. from Buffalo, the commentor calling herself Just Married has NOT been married for ten years. They were together for ten years, then married in December and plan a full wedding in a year or two. If that is your plan, there is nothing wrong with it. Jack – read more carefully and don’t jump all over people. Sheesh.
— Karen C 01/05/2010 Reply
@ Karen C. – Thanks for your response, and for being a careful reader. :)
@ Jack S. – Apparently the words “recent nuptials,” and the reference to my December ceremony, were lost on you. And as a general matter, the concept of helping out “poor struggling newlyweds” as a rationale for a bridal shower or wedding gifts doesn’t have much of a place in modern society. Many couples are waiting until they are older, graduate from college (or even graduate/professional school) and have a reliable income to marry. By this point, they are more likely to be able to support themselves financially and to already have their share of “hand towels, kitchen appliances and stemware,” as you put it, or to have the financial capacity buy those things for themselves. Why should they not be entitled to experience the same memorable moments as those who married at an earlier age or who may have been less well-equipped (at least with tangible things like towels and appliances) for the realities of day-to-day married life? That’s like saying that you’re not going to buy a birthday or holiday present for someone who is so wealthy that they can buy whatever they want for themselves. In today’s world, shower and wedding gifts are simply a celebration of the couple and their special day – just as birthday and holiday presents are a celebration of those special days.
— Just Married, Pgh 01/08/2010 Reply