Columns
Is She Unqualified, Or Just A Mother? And The Pitfalls Of Asking For A Gift
Monday, March 22, 2010
DEAR CAT: I interviewed for an internal job and got a second interview with the “big boss.” In the first minute of the interview he told me that I was unable to do the job because I have a baby to take care of. Isn’t this considered discrimination? What choices do I have to move forward? I’ve already contacted HR, but they are ignoring me. â MOMS CAN WORK TOO
DEAR M.C.W.T.: It is discriminatory to refuse a qualified applicant based only upon the fact that they are a parent. But before you get litigious, remember that you already work for the company, so your employer knows youâre a parent and you haven’t been fired. Two huge missing details: the type of job and the schedule it requires (i.e. did you say you canât work graveyard shifts but the job requires it). At this stage, move forward by effectively convincing the powers that be that you are completely capable of handling every aspect of the job â and be ready to deliver on it!. On that note, if HR blows you off againâ¦Catâs Call: Go straight to the big boss.
DEAR CAT: After my husband and I eloped, my parents had a fancy party for us; basically a regular wedding reception except it was two months after we were married. Most people brought gifts of money (which we didn’t expect), but one of my adult cousins did not. My mother called my cousin’s mother to ask if there was a mistake since we hadnât received a gift from her daughter. My aunt said she must have forgotten and shortly after I received a check in the mail. Needless to say, my husband and I were mortified! Perhaps my cousin (who is single and 30) didn’t feel it was necessary to give a gift. Since that time my cousin is still nice to me at family gatherings but she ignores my emails and calls, and just seems to be distant. The whole situation is awkward and ridiculous and I’m not sure if I am being paranoid or if I should be worried that something is wrong. âMIXED SYMPATHIES
DEAR MIXED: Youâre not paranoid, something is actually wrong. One possibility is how you handled the embarrassment of accepting a monetary gift blatantly solicited by your mother. Did you promptly call your cousin and apologize for your motherâs disgraceful and ill-mannered demand for money? If not, add that to your to-do list. If so, perhaps your cousin was simply put off by the whole ordeal and wants some space. After all, thereâs only so much wedding gift-related drama a single 30 year old can tolerate. Iâm sure this debacle will eventually fade away and your cousin will come to understand the problem was caused by your mother, not you. Until then, donât force contact on your cousin; just let her cool off. And please write to me and answer the most important question of allâ¦Catâs Call: Did you cash your cousinâs check?
Whatâs YOUR call? Share it below! Submit column questions here or send snail mail to: Catâs Call, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 34 Blvd. of the Allies, Pittsburgh, PA 15222.
If she got to the second round, she most likely could do the job. This is discrimination, pure and simple. Your advice here seems inappropriate. This is a legal matter, and you did not refer appropriately.
I usually find your advice exceptional, so I am surprised you seem to waver here. But when I think further, your advice is mostly a ‘gut feeling’. So you may not have been qualified to answer this particular question.
— Christine Nightingale, Friendship 03/23/2010 Reply
Cat,
I enjoy your column and read it every Tuesday. However, as a civil rights attorney (from Pittsburgh, now in Ft. Lauderdale) I couldnât disagree with you more regarding the pregnant woman. If HR is ignoring her and the Big Boss already told her that she canât have the job because of her baby, going back to the Big Boss may be fruitless. She needs to contact an attorney to understand her rights. While there may be some holes in her story that wonât rise to a discrimination claim, she needs to at least know that. Stating that she still has a job even though they know she is a parent, is not justification for not allowing an individual to advance. This is why women hit a âglass ceiling.â Women are good enough to balance family and work until they want to move up. She does have rights and she shouldnât be content to just have a job. Thanks.
— Jacqueline, FL 03/23/2010 Reply
Cat,
Your advice was off base today. I’m an employment attorney and the person who wrote in today needs to contact the eeoc. The boss’ comment violates the law. He based his decision, at least in part, on an unlawful basis. If HR hasn’t responded, she needs to go to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. They have a duty to investigate, and if she were to consider a lawsuit, she needs to go there first anyway. The fact that they haven’t fired her is irrelevant. Taking an adverse employment action based in her having a young child is illegal. Period. I hope you follow up with her. She needs to end her boss “mommy tracking”. (For the record, I defend employers. If one of my clients did this, I would set them straight asap. This is a lot of lawsuits waiting to happen. This isn’t even close! She’s not making assumptions – he told her!!)
— Marie 03/23/2010 Reply
I see the other commenters are lawyers (so am I) and you’re not giving Cat enough credit here. Read her answer carefully: she’s telling “Working Mom” what the company’s position will be if this turned into a lawsuit and she is 100% correct. She’s also telling her: try again by using the correct channels and doing everything spot-on right. If you’re still blown off, you probably have your answer. Cat didn’t say “don’t” get litigious, she said “before” you get litigious. I find this to be thoughtful advice that could save the new mother a ton of grief if she wanted to start crying “discrimination!” at the top of her lungs. We’re assuming Working Mom’s story is accurate but we don’t really know, do we?
— Jason (Pittsburgh) 03/23/2010 Reply
I just knew if I checked the comments here I’d find people saying you’re off your rocker, Cat. You and “Jason” are the only ones so far who seem to understand that lawsuits are a BIG DEAL and the mom would be in a for a looong haul that most likely wouldn’t end in her favor. I’m not suggesting she take this lying down but your advice was the same a lawyer would tell her: do everything by the book; show yourself as a perfect candidate for the job; prove the company discriminated against you. My call to Moms Can Work: You can’t just say “the boss said this to me” with no context provided and expect the world to take your side. You have to PROVE it. You have to give the company zero reason for not promoting you. That includes being the perfect employee to begin with…..Are you?
— Sharon, Pittsburgh 03/23/2010 Reply
I am also a lawyer and what I want to know is whether “Mixed” is mortified that her mother called about the gift, or is mortified that the cousin forgot to bring one in the first place. She also should consider talking to her mother and requesting she butt out because it’s a terrible precedent for a mother to be fixing the problems of newlyweds.
— Jason from Cranberry 03/23/2010 Reply
Sorry, Cat, I think you missed the boat on this one. As an HR professional for 15 years I can state that she did the right thing by reporting this incident to the HR department. It is their duty to investigate. She states that the HR department is ignoring her? Then the only thing left for her to do is contact the EEOC.
— Chris, Pittsburgh 03/23/2010 Reply
I am assuming here that the “big boss” is actually a woman. If it were a man, clearly cat would state that it’s all his fault.
— tablet k 03/23/2010 Reply
My call (this will not be popular): We have become a “lawsuit society” with a “lawsuit mentality” all the while saying lawyers are scum. If “Moms Can Work” went to a lawyer, they’d say the same thing as Cat: the company already employs you so obviously we can’t prove there is a policy of discrimination at work here. I suspect highly “Moms” is not the perfect candidate for the job and the “big boss” tried to sound sensitive when he mentioned her new mother status as a reason for saying no. Oh yes that’s stupid and crosses a line but it’s probably not be the real reason for not hiring her. To make a discrimination case she’d have to be the perfect employee – never late on arrival, no habit of leaving early, perfect production record, the whole lot. In the end the boss would deny saying anything to her about her baby, which leaves them in a he said/she said situation. If she decides to pursue this she should first seek out another job.
— John on the Left Coast 03/23/2010 Reply
Hey Tablet K, learn to read. The question says the big boss is a man.
— Joanne, Pittsburgh 03/23/2010 Reply
Did you cash your cousins check? AND…did you give your rude mother HELL?!!!
— Holly Charlotte, NC 03/23/2010 Reply
Yeah, i just assumed it was an intentional typo.
As far as the actual question is concerned, let’s just say I am suspect. Few bosses are stupid enough to say that. The more likely scenerio is “Your performance lately has been lacking. You’re tired and cranky and come in late and take days off. We accomadate that because you have a baby. But this new job is going to be intense and require more from you. I can see from your performance you are having a hard time balancing your current job, which makes you unqualified for this job.” The applicant just wants to blame discrimination, when it could be legitinately performance based.
I don’t know, of course. maybe she’s doing fine in her job. but based on my layman’s observance of how these things work, a vast majority of both men AND women look for anything other than their own performance, which usually descends into an automatic “discrimination!” accusation.
Raising a child AND working is tough, and I’m sympathetic. But it’s hardly fair to everyone else—men and women—when allowances are made to accomadate, then want those special privileges to be ignored when it counts against them.
— tablet k 03/23/2010 Reply
Hey Tablet K?? I agree with you! (your first post didn’t make any sense). Why attack Cat in your first post, I don’t understand? Now all of a sudden you write what many people wouldn’t say out loud. I am a single working woman who’s faced discrimination in the workplace a dozen times. I pay my own health insurance and I work my ass off. Nobody bends over backwards to accommodate me and I don’t expect them to, but many mothers do. It’s like a syndrome where mothers don’t realize that people don’t care “extra” about them. The boss is probably a jackass if he said anything like that (we have no proof that he did) but chances are better that the woman has required special accommodation before (because of her baby and that’s understandable) and the company doesn’t see her as a good fit for a more demanding position. That’s my call.
— Joanne, Pittsburgh 03/23/2010 Reply
Hate to break it to you Tablet K, but this kind of discrimination still occurs quite often. I’ve experienced it and witnessed it many times at my previous job, which explains why I left after 16 years. There are a lot of bosses that still have that “good old boys” club mentality.
— Mary, Pittsburgh 03/23/2010 Reply
My call: Before “MOMS” thinks of doing anything legal she needs to write out her story including every detail. What is her history with the company? Is she an A-grade worker or less? When did she first apply for the job? How long after her application was she granted the first interview? How did that interview go? How long after that was she granted the second interview? What EXACTLY did the big boss say? Word for word. How did she respond to his comment? For example, did she say “lots of people have children, why is my situation unique, or grounds for lack of consideration for the job?” His statement was presented completely out of context. I imagine this would be difficult for Cat or anyone to determine how to answer it in short form. Trust me, if you can avoid legal action, you should.
— Michael, Cleveland 03/23/2010 Reply
The second question blows my mind. I want to know – she says “most” people brought money gifts, but not all. If the cousin gave a few placemats or a teapot, that’d be ok? The whole thing makes my stomach turn. She should send her cousin a handwritten note apologizing profusely for her mother. Great call Cat…if they in fact cashed the check, that’s appalling.
— Karen, DC 03/23/2010 Reply
Ewww how horribly tacky of your mother to throw a reception for a wedding where you chose to elope! To invite your guests to a reception when they weren’t privledged enough to actually witness the nuptuals has one giant gift grab written all over it!
— Kim , Pittsburgh 03/23/2010 Reply
To the woman who interviewed for the job -yes, this is discrimination and is illegal. I’m not sure Cat’s response is correct.
Without knowing the full details of the story, it is hard to say…but from what was written, it is illegal and something should be said to your HR Dept.
And for the woman who is married (whose mother embarrassed her), I think it is normal these days for folks to elope and have a party afterwards. I don’t think it was appropriate for the mother to do this and am sorry this happened as it placed everyone in an awkward situation. Cat seems to be jumping to assumptions without taking the time to address the problem.
— Daniela, Pittsburgh 03/23/2010 Reply
While it was tacky of that mother to call and inquire of the cousin regarding why she didn’t give a wedding gift, it was equally tacky of the cousin to not give a gift. When people are invited to a wedding reception gifts should be given. They may not be “required” per strict rules of etiquette, but commn sense rules dictate that they are required. And they’re expected. If the cousin didn’t want to give a gift she should not have attended.
— Kitty, Pittsburgh Pa 03/23/2010 Reply
Whoa Cat! Bad call on the woman who was told she couldn’t have the job ‘cause she’s a parent. It is CLEARLY discrimmination and the HR dept. knows it! But HR doesn’t want to get involved because the incident involves the “big boss.” If “Moms Can Work Too” can get anything in writing, or prove that the reason she didn’t get the promotion is because she’s a parent, she actually has the basis for a lawsuit. And guess what, HR knows that too. The type of job or the schedule required has nothing to do with this. I would suggest that “Moms” seek legal counsel.
— sjm, Pittsburgh 03/23/2010 Reply
Hi Cat. As an attorney I can say you gave the best possible advice in this situation, which is to avoid legal action if possible. The writer gave you very little to go on other than a softball pitch to attack the “big boss” for discrimination which is extremely hard to prove. I couldn’t count how many times I have been approached by people like “Moms” who want to sue sue sue! Once you get all the details these situations most often do not favor the allegedly ‘wronged’ party. For all we know the first interview didn’t go well and “Moms” was given the second interview as a matter of course, not because she was a great candidate for the position. It’s impossible to know and you recognized that and gave her solid advice that would not jeopardize her current standing at the company.
— Josh, Pittsburgh 03/23/2010 Reply
Jason,
I read your comments and find them to be very thoughtful. Even as a lawyer, I do not feel compelled to file lawsuits just to file a lawsuit. However, since this is an advice column, I am concerned that the writer may not be aware of what her rights are. She should absolutely go through the correct channels but with the assistance of a lawyer. If she does have a discrimination case, sitting around “proving” what she can do at work may actually bar her legal rights if she is being discriminated against. And for all reading this, do not ever hire a lawyer whose first reaction is to file a lawsuit without exploring other options first.
— Ft. Lauderdale 03/29/2010 Reply
How did the mother even find out that the cousin didn’t bring a gift? She has big balls for calling and inquiring as to why not. Just makes my stomach turn. BTW if you did cash the check, shame on you but we know where you got your manners.
— bird in the 'burgh 04/27/2010 Reply