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Starting To Date A Bit Late & He Won't Move For $25K
Tuesday, August 09, 2011
DEAR CAT: I find myself feeling a bit alone, I am a 25 year old guy and have never been on a date (not even anything in school). I find it hard to even think about trying to date. I cannot imagine that someone would like to date me with such a lack of experience. I do not want to complain or make excuses but I am antisocial, a tad paranoid, and every friendship I have ever had has ended extremely badly. It has taken me a year to work up the courage to write to you. Even though I usually agree with your advice, I tend to second guess everything and I have almost no self-esteem. Do I ever have a chance? â AM I A DATING DO OR DONâT?
DEAR DATING: Of course you have a chance! But a date doesnât magically occur, you have to make it happen. But you havenât had any successful friendships either, and you describe yourself as antisocial and paranoid, so the first date you should make is with a therapist to work out those problems. I know thatâs not the answer you want but it is undoubtedly the best advice I can offer. Since you usually agree with my advice, I hope this is one of those times. Dating is mostly fun but it can also be tough and you may not be tough enough (yet!) to deal with it. Talking out your problems with a trusted ally (like a therapist) is a great way to navigate the ins and outs of the dating world. Catâs Call: Good luck!
DEAR CAT: I met my fiancée while I was in the military and living in another state. After three years together and knowing she wanted a professional career, I decided to resign from the service (I was thinking about it anyway). But I told her if I left the military I would want to move home to Pittsburgh. I did that and got a new career established, then we got engaged. She found a job in Pittsburgh with a pay raise and she was set to move but her current employer offered to top her new salary by a lot more ($100k vs. $75k per year). Now she wants me to quit my job and move, which means selling my new home at a loss and leaving my friends and family after just one year. Iâd have to re-start a new job just as I was getting going, plus move to a city I really didn’t enjoy where neither of us have family and very few friends. I feel the difference in money isn’t great enough to give up everything else we want but sheâs stuck on the âI can make six figuresâ argument. I love her and would move to her if I had to. I said it was her decision, but that I hated the idea. Was I wrong for not supporting her? â IN A JAM
DEAR JAM: There will always be compromise in a relationship, particularly in a marriage. The key is to make this decision with a long-term plan that will satisfy both of you. You say youâd move if you âhad toâ but youâre also saying $25,000 isnât enough. You donât want to leave your job but youâre open to her doing so. I understand wanting to be near family and friends but putting a negative âI hate itâ spin on something wonderful in her life is not a great way to negotiate. Should you be supportive? Yes. Does that mean you must move for her? That’s up to both of you. But….Catâs Call: Sorry, no matter how you cut it, $25,000 is a significant pay raise.
What’s YOUR call? Share it below! Submit questions to: questions@catscall.com or click here!.
If you’re antisocial and paranoid I’d think dating would be the last thing on your mind. Dating IS social.
— Sarah, East End 08/09/2011 Reply
@Sarah: It is true, but just because I do not want to be around more then one person at a time does not mean I do not want someone to trust in, someone to rely on – something I do not find easily. I found someone once, she was very much like me, and in the end I believe too much like me.
General thought: I am not sure why everyone seems to put so much trust into therapists, they are not your friend, you cannot trust them. They are not worth the money you pay them. Plus all the drugs they like to put people on, NO THANKS.
@Cat: Looking at it logically your idea makes seance, and had anyone else asked I think I would even agree with it. But for me the being antisocial and a bit paranoid is part of what makes the idea of a relationship so special because if I can find someone then it would mean so much more. Also for better or worse it is who I am, turning my back on it just seems wrong. But the advice still stands as being good.
And to answer the question before it is asked: anonymity frees the mind and the soul.
— AM I A DATING DO OR DONâT? 08/10/2011 Reply
To Dating Guy, Cat gave you the world’s best advice. Clearly you read her columns or you wouldn’t write to her in the first place, you know she doesn’t tell everyone to seek professional help as a kneejerk reaction (I think she could recommend that more!). You say being antisocial and paranoid is “who you are” but no, that is only who you have BECOME. You say turning your back on it seems wrong because working problems out is hard and scary. Don’t take this the wrong way: You are a coward. You see a relationship as a fix but you don’t know how much you’ll have to give to be in a good one. Paranoia is irrationality. Antisocial means you are uncomfortable intermixing with people in general. A therapist CAN be trusted, that is paranoia talking. You sound more typical than you think “woe is me, nobody has my back, I know what’s best for me” and you are all alone. It doesn’t have to be that way. Show some courage buddy. Follow the advice, instead of deciding at 25 yrs old that you know everything. Trust me, you don’t.
— T. 08/11/2011 Reply
Dating do or don’t – Cat’s advice is right on. Seeing a therapist will not change you into a different person, it will just help you to see some of the issues you describe in a more objective way. As you start to understand yourself, you will benefit in ways that you could not have predicted AND be more likely to form a lasting relationship.
— PB from NY 08/12/2011 Reply
âBut for me the being antisocial and a bit paranoid is part of what makes the idea of a relationship so special because if I can find someone then it would mean so much more.â
Dating Guy: You have made a relationship the remedy for the antisocial paranoia that ails you. Healthy relationships are between people who have a strong sense of self â if you have low self-esteem, and you bring that to your âspecialâ relationship, I see clinginess, neediness, and a whole host of other issues that could exasperate and drive away a potential partner. A visit to the therapist is definitely in order. At 25 you are too young to give up on this â Good Luck
— Paula PA 08/26/2011 Reply
A lack of experience isn’t that big of a deal but Cat is right, you have serious issues to work out. If you are already paranoid what will happen when you call a girl and she doesn’t call you back the same day. You’ll freak out then call her twenty times and go bang on her door, she’ll call the cops and say you’re a stalker. You’re 25 that’s old enough to go figure yourself out.
— whodaman 08/09/2011 Reply
Jam: what world are you living in that 25k isn’t a lot of money? I know people who would move for a job that pays 25k. Your lady can make 100k and you’re whining about friends and family. She is your bride to be which means she is your family now. Don’t complain about leaving a new job. It’s harder to leave a job where you are comfortable and they value you enough to offer you that much more money.
— Shawn 08/09/2011 Reply
The fiancé may have “stuck by him” during his military career, but she also wanted him out of the military, too. Don’t forget, he ended a military career for her. True, he was already “thinking” of it, but if you have served (as I have) you know that the one thing everyone in the military entertains from time to time is leaving it when things get tough and you’re far from home. Her encouragement on top of that made him choose to leave for them, and since she already KNEW he wanted to move back home after getting out, this was no surprise to her. Did she let the new prospective employer in Pittsburgh know of the counter offer at her old job so they, in turn, could compete with it? If she did and they didn’t make an offer of their own, I understand. BUT … if she didn’t tell them and just took her old job’s offer? Then its about “her” not wanting to move and that’s selfish after someone walked away from HIS career for her. Add in the house (which can lose more the 25k), and the value of family and friends (which one truly does not learn to appreciate dearly until serving in the service), and it’s much more than her 25k pay increase IMHO. I saw this play out personally myself being a career veteran. Food for thought: Those who lie or renege on dreams and/or promises in the smaller details, will surely do so in the bigger ones after marriage. If she’s changing her mind now, what’s to keep stopping her in the future?
— Louisa from Pittsburgh 08/10/2011 Reply
Cat, I don’t necessarily agree with your response to Jam. Where is the compromise? He left the military so she could have her professional career and they agreed to move to Pittsburgh to do so. To me, that is the compromise. 75K is more than enough for anyone in Pittsburgh. Now she is just being selfish.
— burghman 08/09/2011 Reply
Burghman it’s not your place to say how much is enough for someone else to live on. YOU say 75K is enough in Pittsburgh but I would disagree with that. 75K – taxes + kids + city property taxes + the cost of everyday life = not so much. I agree with Ms. Thing, Jam’s fiancée waited for him for three years (four if you include his time back home after the service). It’s time for him to man up and be present in her life that was established long before he started this new job. They can always move back here later.
— Katie, PGH 08/09/2011 Reply
Really? $75K in Pittsburgh as a second income winds down to being “not that much”? What world are you living in? And Ms. Thing is mislead. Saying the fiance waiting for him while in the military is compromise is plain wrong. You don’t stay with someone in a relationship because you are “getting” something out of it – which defines a compromise. You stay because you love that person unconditionally – meaning not expecting anything in return.
— burghman 08/18/2011 Reply
@burghman, maybe more career-oriented than selfish
@AM I A DATING: As much as I despise that type of profession… You definitely need professional help. You may be a cuckhold and not even know it.
@ IN A JAM: The call is yours, actually. You either follow your career-oriented wife because you love her and it appears she is on the “fast track” to success or you tell her that you are staying behind and make the necessary arrangements.
Either way, good luck to you!
— Lebron from Pittsburgh 08/09/2011 Reply
Lebron pulled out the cuckhold!! I think you’d do that even if there was a question about two old ladies playing gin rummy. It makes me laugh every time:)
— Katie in Pgh 08/12/2011 Reply
@Katie,
If it writes like a cuckhold, and apparently lives like a cuckhold, it is probably a cuckhold! :)
— Lebron from Pittsburgh 08/12/2011 Reply
Jam,
It depends on the city too. $25K may not be that significant of a difference in a city with a high cost of living. The Pittsburgh area has a relatively low cost of living. Once you enter that into the equation, maybe the money difference would be much different and she’ll want to come to Pittsburgh. PS…does she hail from the area?
— Jennifer, North Versailles 08/09/2011 Reply
Dating do or don’t: don’t start dating until you work out all your other issues. Dating only makes it worse. You have to build a friendship before you move on to something more, and you are not capable of building a strong friendship YET. With time and help you will.
Jam: there are many factors here, and everyone is different, but I think I am on your side. You already made one compromise in getting out of the Army for her, here is her comeback compromise. Sure, the money is nice; but I have found through experience that friends and family being minutes away makes life a lot more enjoyable than more money does. My wife and I spent several years in other parts of the country, seeing great sites and doing interesting things, but they were not as special without our close family and friends experiencing them with us. We both took pay cuts to come back to Pittsburgh, and have not had one regret since. Sure, she may make 25 K more, but you’d spend that on trips back and forth to visit friends and family and be a part of their lives, or them coming to visit you and be part of your big days… Money cannot buy everything nor happiness; it IS important, but it sounds like you two would have plenty if you went with the options in Pittsburgh.
Ultimately, you both have to bare your souls to one another, pray over it/think it over for a week, then come together to make the decision. Good luck.
— Wertzro in Pittsburgh 08/09/2011 Reply
For Jam – I don’t think the decision should be based on the $$$ but I don’t think it should be based solely on your preference to be near your friends and family either. This is the first of many compromises that will have to take place for a successful marriage. You should both look at the quality of the jobs (not just the $ amount), whether the jobs are what you want long term, the difference in cost-of-living, and so on. You mention giving up everything else “we” want, but from the letter it looks like those are your wants not hers – being close to YOUR family and friends, not wanting to sell YOUR new home, It’s not clear if this was ever what she wanted. From her perspective, she would be moving closer to her in-laws and her husband’s buddies, and into a house that was already bought (and furnished). Not very appealing. BTW you both ought to think about some of the other compromises ahead of you – what are your views on children and child care, for example? Get it all out in the open now, because it won’t get any easier later on.
— PB from NY 08/09/2011 Reply
For JAM: Your fiancee already compromised by staying with you for years while you were in the military. I know all about that kind of commitment, the hardest thing is to stick by someone in that situation. Now it is your turn to stick by her. Tell her you love her, you support her, you’re proud of her, and you’ll be there as soon as your bags are packed.
For DATING: Not one friend really???? Even a casual one? That is not good. I agree with Cat here. You have to work this stuff out or you’ll be a bummer date. I’m not saying you can’t find someone but it’s much better to have yourself put together before putting your ego on the line on the dating scene. There’s a lot of rejection out there and I don’t think you could handle it yet. There is always hope! Follow Cat’s advice on this one. Good luck!
— Ms. Thing 08/09/2011 Reply
LW #2: I think it’s important to keep in mind that it’s her current employer offering her the higher salary. From her point of view, you’re not really asking her to give up a raise- you’re asking her to give up her current life and take a $25,000 payCUT to move to Pittsburgh to be with you. Does she have any ties to the city besides you? Does she even like the city? I grew up in Pittsburgh and love lots of things about it but it would take a really amazing, once in a lifetime-type opportunity for me to move back, especially if I was at a point where I was getting married and possibly thinking kids. $25K is a ton of money, especially if there’s nothing attracting her to the city itself.
— Maria 08/10/2011 Reply
Good point about the pay cut. Her $25k isn’t enough for him to move but it’s enough for her to stay where she is.
— John, NH 08/10/2011 Reply
Jam: Did she know she was marrying a guy who has strong local roots? Just be honest with her about how important being near family is to you. Also you need to honestly determine how much money you are talking about. A Twenty-Five Thousand Dollar raise will not cover cost of living if she is in Boston, New York or many East and West coast locations. You also need to think about the ability to have family help you with child care if you start a family. Not having family support when you have young children can be devastating to a young family— and it can be a huge factor if you do not have to pay for day-care and deal with absences to take care of sick children. Furthermore, if you will have to relocate to Pittsburgh later because of childcare issues you are starting all over again even later in life. Sit down and calmly review all the budgetary and social issues with your fiancee. Is it possible that she will only make $75,000 this year but will have a large salary increase in year two or three? There are a lot of different matters to discuss and weigh. Just don’t rush into anything.
— Christina Pittsburgh 08/10/2011 Reply
Actually, from what I read, I think we are missing something with JAM. First of all they agreed on a path to move to Pittsburgh, and he set up a life for THEM here.
Secondly, there is nothing in the note to indicate whether or not she would be able to get to six figures here in Pittsburgh. If I was her employer, I would be wary of the next company to offer her money to jump ship. As an employer I will never counter offer an employee that wants to leave.
— David Shaler 08/10/2011 Reply
@David, what you said doesn’t make sense. If she could receive the 25K in Pittsburgh it wouldn’t be an issue in the first place.
@Louisa, paragraphs would have been nice.
@AM I A DATING, dude you have serious issues and from what I read in your reply, may even be a sociopath.
— Lebron from Pittsburgh 08/11/2011 Reply
AM I A DATING – First, congratulations on taking the first step and seeking out Cat’s advice! Humans are social creatures. We are not meant to build up walls to insulate our feelings … being “hurt” is part of the human experience. I know full well what I am talking about – I used to be in an emotional pit and then someone came along by accident and pulled me out. I fell in love with this man. He is EXACTLY like you. He has no friends, absolutely no self esteem, and has had people walk all over him like a doormat.
Do you know how hard it is for me to sit by and watch as he seemingly doesn’t care about us? I know that he does, but his lack of self esteem makes it hard for him to give me verbal cues that he loves me – he is not used to it so he doesn’t do it. He doesn’t like to touch people so the one thing I love most in the world – to sit by my boyfriend’s side with his arm around me – rarely happens. Because he feels worthless, he can take it or leave it at times since he figures he is going to lose me anyhow.
By going to see a licensed counselor, I learned why he acts the way he does. My counselor is the one who has saved our relationship – she has insisted I hang in there because she can see that this relationship – when it is clicking – is an awesome and so worth the effort. Because of her sound advice, I’ve become more patient and I’ve learned to read other clues my boyfriend gives off as to how he is feeling. I’ve also learned how to better communicate with him so that he, in turn, feels he can open up and trust me. Before I would say things angrily such as “you never want to touch me or put your arm around me” but I’ve now learned to say something like “I enjoy when you give me a hug – it let’s me know you care about me. What do you like me to do to show you how much I love you?” Talking this way has opened new doors and we now have great communication.
By the way, a therapist does not and cannot dispense drugs. In fact, a great therapist will rarely even dispense advice. Instead, a therapist listens to you and acts as a sounding board. A great therapist knows that often the client can see the light if they just have an opportunity to get their thoughts straight in their head, often by talking them out. A therapist will also make observations and allow the client to come to make the connection and come to the obvious conclusion.
You are absolutely correct that your paranoia and antisocial behavior have made you who you are today. However, I would say to you that you have lost approximately 10 years of dating time already. Do you want to look back when you are 35 and realize now you have lost 20 years? You get exactly ONE life – just ONE. Don’t lose anymore of the precious time you could be sharing with someone who loves you.
I would say that it wouldn’t hurt to try out going to see a licensed counselor or even talk to the pastor of a local church, just to have someone be a sounding board. Be honest with them and tell them the same things you shared on here. If you don’t feel you are making any progress at all after a reasonable number of sessions – say six – then try something else. But what have you got to lose other than 10 more years of your life being alone?
— Steph in Pittsburgh 08/11/2011 Reply
Steph,
Thank you for your story, it is rather helpful to see from the other side of things. I wish you all the best, I know how he feels although the thought of not wanting to get close to someone seems odd from my side of the things. I have always thought it would be the greatest thing in the world to do.
Also I tried a pastor, I find their faith blinds them they are too quick to forgive.
— AM I A DATING DO OR DONâT? 08/11/2011 Reply
#2: Sounds like you (both) need to figure out what the real issue is and deal with that.. it appears to be more than money and location.
#1: So you’re antisocial, a tad paranoid, have no self esteem and every friendship you have ever had has ended extremely badly?? If this is a real letter (and I’m not sure I believe that it is) get yourself to a therapist – ASAP
— RG - Pittsburgh 08/13/2011 Reply
RG: The no-dates guy has comments here, he calls himself “Am I a dating do or don’t.” I wouldn’t take his descriptions of himself too seriously. I think that is what’s throwing you off. I assume he means paranoid like he assumes people will hurt him, antisocial in the way a young man without friends would be because he has no one to have fun with. Although here he is giving excuses for why everyone’s suggestions are wrong which makes me have less sympathy for him.
— John 08/14/2011 Reply